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under the laws of material nature daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā bg 7 14 it is very difficult bill sauer in one of the cover letters that went out to some of the people in the american institute of the aeronautics and astronautics i referred to mankind as a biological phenomenon to solve one of nature s big problems and a man wrote back anyone who calls man a biological phenomenon shouldn t try and talk to me so i don t know what he thinks we are but prabhupāda biological phenomenon bill sauer it is nature it is governed by the laws of nature exactly prabhupāda so you can get out of it as it is advised daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā bg 7 14 it is very difficult but mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te if you surrender to god then you can get out of this biological problem otherwise it is not possible mr davis may i just add one little note to my friend and i m sure my scientist friend will back me up that the radiation from the sun is far more than just light which is after all just a mere part of the electromagnetic radiation bill sauer physical light is what you re talking about mr davis yes bill sauer i m talking about the whole electromagnetic spectrum mr davis yes but you said light bill sauer i wrote i ve said it in the book that it is far more complex than we can even imagine let s see dr sharma yataḥ pravṛttir bhūtānāṁ yena sarvam idaṁ tatam svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya siddhiṁ vindati mānavaḥ devotee 2 excuse me is your name bill did you ever inquire to ask what is the source of the light if you look at a light bulb you can examine that it has a source you can trace it back to the electric company and the people who are running the electric company are personalities right so in the same way the light of the sun and the light of the moon is coming from a person a personality right and that person we say that person is the source of all truths actually bill sauer that s an interesting way i said radiant energy from the sun was to be the most important ingredient for our living earth we know the content of the sun rays to be light and heat this is what our senses tell us we measure waves lengths and we see colors in sunlight however the sun rays are a blend of radiant energy so complex that we may never understand their significance and i believe at least in our generation i don t think we ll quite understand how complex the sun is so i agree totally with you dr sharma it s not only that by the theory of relativity the observer is also a part of the observed bill sauer that s correct we will never understand dr sharma for that reason it s difficult to comprehend infinity by our finite mind and chanting gives you something gives me something bill sauer that s right well you find an intuitive understanding dr sharma i can t explain it mr davis it brings you to the uncertainty principle dr sharma uncertainty principle yes bill sauer i m glad you said that then this holds true that we may never understand the significance and being observers on the scene we probably never will einstein used to say he d like to he used to wonder how it might be to ride a wave of light so he could see how it really was but since we re sitting here laughs dr sharma someday we have to have the faith and the only thing as prabhupāda said that there is a bottle of honey inside and being outside you can see but unless you taste it you can t really feel it bill sauer probably the most important i quoted some people this is tierre de jardin who was a very religious man in science was caught right in the two and i consider this probably the most important quote in the book de jardin said in the mutual reinforcement of these two still opposed powers namely religion and science dr sharma no i would never agree to that religion and science bill sauer in the western civilization it s opposed he s saying philosophically he said in the mutual reinforcement of these two still opposed powers and the conjunction of reason and mysticism the human spirit is destined by the very nature of its development to find the uttermost degree of its penetration and the maximum of its vital force in other words spirituality and science already have truth vṛṣākapi excuse me one thing is you should address your questions to the authority this discussion that you are having will get you nowhere unless you apply your questions to the authority then you will never understand anything so the authority is śrīmad bhāgavatam and his divine grace a c bhaktivedanta is teaching on that authority so if you have come here then you should try to address your questions to his divine grace rather than arguing among yourselves because you will not find any satisfaction in your argument if you want information then you must go to the authority guest still the argument was an aspect of the occasion and it came out of the wisdom that he s here prabhupāda acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet things which are inconceivable do not try to understand by argument acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet so our process this kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to take knowledge from the authority unless we take knowledge from the authority however we may go on arguing we cannot come to the conclusion the modern scientists philosophers they are arguing but they do not come to the conclusion if you want to take conclusion just like two lawyers are arguing in the court but the conclusion is given by the authority the judge that one has to accept so we take authority the bhagavad gītā or kṛṣṇa he is accepted authority by all the ācāryas rāmānujācārya madhvācārya viṣṇu svāmī caitanya mahāprabhu and in the śāstra also vyāsadeva nārada devala asita so our authority is confirmed so if we take conclusion from the authority then we benefit otherwise with our limited knowledge if we go on arguing then we cannot understand the conclusion that is not possible tarko pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā by argument we cannot come to the conclusion i can argue and you can argue but you may argue more than me another person can argue more than you in this way you do not come to the conclusion and śrutayo vibhinnā so far scriptures are concerned there are also different scriptures nāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam and a philosopher is not a philosopher if he does not agree with others if he does not agree other philosophers so in this way you are perplexed therefore it is advised mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ cc madhya 17 186 we should accept the authority and then we shall be benefited so the authorities are mentioned in the śāstra who are authorities so if we follow the authorities then we get the conclusion so kṛṣṇa is the authority accepted at least in india all the vedic authorities vedāntists they have accepted kṛṣṇa is the authority so we simply follow what kṛṣṇa says and we get benefit out of it then it is all right and without following authority if you go on arguing there is no end the same example that two lawyers both of them are learned scholar they are going on arguing on some point they do not come to conclusion but when the judge gives his conclusion that has to be accepted that is final so we have to find out the judge that is kṛṣṇa so we have got many points to understand by argument but if we take the judgment of kṛṣṇa then it is conclusive and he has his direction in every field of life in the bhagavad gītā even our political leaders they also accept bhagavad gītā in guidance so if you take guidance from bhagavad gītā without malinterpretation then we are benefited unfortunately we interpret our own way which is favorable to us and that is not required then the authority of the bhagavad gītā is gone we make our own conclusion supposing on the authority of bhagavad gītā that will not help us by malinterpretation you take the conclusion of bhagavad gītā as it is then you will be benefited eugene thoreau may i ask a question is it possible to aim at any form of personal existence after death prabhupāda yes you are personally existing you are old man when you were a child you were person when you were young man you were a person now you are old man you are a person we are personalities continuing although the body is changing you are not missing your personality so therefore personality continues even when you change this body that is explained in the bhagavad gītā in the second chapter kṛṣṇa says find out this verse puṣṭa kṛṣṇa dehino smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā bg 2 13 hari śauri na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre bg 2 20 prabhupāda no there is another verse where kṛṣṇa says my dear arjuna you and me and all these persons who are assembled here hari śauri na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam prabhupāda ah that verse puṣṭa kṛṣṇa na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsaṁ na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ sarve vayam ataḥ param translation never was there a time when i did not exist nor you nor all these kings nor in the future shall any of us cease to be prabhupāda yes that means in the past we existed at present we are existing and in future we shall continue to exist individually and that is our experience i existed in the past as a child so i existed as a person i existed as a young man so i existed as a person i am an old man now now i am existing as a person naturally the conclusion is when i shall change this body i shall remain as a person how we can change this conclusion i am continuing to exist as a person i am still existing as a person and here is the authority he says in the future also you remain a person so there is time factor past present and future and in all these time factors i live as a person not only i but also kṛṣṇa he says i also remain as person you arjuna you also person i am also person and all these soldiers and kings who have assembled they are also persons so our personality continues past present and future mr davis then when you die and you are buried they bury your body prabhupāda my body you bury but i go away mr davis they bury my body they bury your name they write it on a stone maybe but they bury your name they bury your memory what survives i was going to ask and then what survives no memory no body no name is the spirit prabhupāda that is soul mr davis and the spirit would not necessarily have the ability to point and say i used to be in that body or that body or that prabhupāda no that he forgets death means forgetfulness just like accepting that i was existing in previous life but now i do not remember this is death but i am existing that s a fact the same example everyone knows that he was existing as a child he was existing as a young man so because it is short period i remember but when the body is completely changed the atmosphere is completely changed we forget but actually i exist continually na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre bg 2 20 this is the authoritative statement that i am not annihilated on account of my body being annihilated so they bury the body or giving some name some tomb that is the business of my relatives my friends my family members but as i am i am aloof from this i have accepted another body and then begin my life in a different way so people do not try to understand this science how it is happening that is all described in the bhagavad gītā if we study bhagavad gītā very carefully we can understand the philosophy of life correctly puṣṭa kṛṣṇa this gentleman here has a question śrīla prabhupāda eugene thoreau you mentioned understanding you mentioned lawyers arguing and the judge make the decision and their higher authority resolves the question can you suggest how people can go beyond that to spiritual understanding not just appealing for judgment over a controversy about facts what suggestions or comments do you have about achieving spiritual understanding prabhupāda that is very simple spiritual understanding that is i was speaking this is beginning of bhagavad gītā spiritual understanding is that i am not this body to devotee you move it this way this is spiritual understanding so long i am under this bodily concept of life that i am this body i am american i am indian i am hindu i am christian i am white i am black and so on so on these are all bodily concept of life so long we keep ourself on this platform then we are on the material platform when we understand that i am not this body that is the beginning of bhagavad gītā dehino smin yathā dehe bg 2 13 deha means this body and dehī means the owner of the body so unless we distinguish the owner of the body and the body there is no spiritual knowledge so long we identify with this body that is material knowledge and when we understand that i am not this body i am a spirit soul i have been entrapped by this body that is spiritual knowledge mr davis is it not also true that the more you can realize i am not this body but there is that within my body which is spiritual and that is there in an african s body which is spiritual or a chinese prabhupāda everyone s body mr davis everyone s body therefore the thing we have in common is we are all a part of the spirit prabhupāda yes that is fact we are part and parcel of the supreme spirit god that is explained in the bhagavad gītā mamaivāṁśo jīva bhūtaḥ bg 15 7 all these living entities they are my part and parcel qualitatively we are one just like a small particle of gold is also gold it is nothing else similarly we being part and parcel of god we have got that godly qualification god can create we can also create that example i have given in my last magazine that we have created this big 747 airplane but we cannot create a mosquito that is also plane with pilot that is god s creation so the creative power both of us we have got but we are limited and he is unlimited that is the difference a drop of seawater contains the same chemicals but the quantity of atlantic ocean and drop of atlantic ocean is not the same so we are just like drop of the atlantic ocean and god is atlantic ocean that is the difference but chemically test the whole atlantic ocean is salty we are also salty whatever chemical composition is atlantic ocean we are also of the same chemical composition and because we are part and parcel of god therefore we show sometimes activities very wonderful but still god s activities are still more wonderful that we cannot compare that is not possible so we should understand what is the duty of the part and parcel now just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body so what is the duty of the finger to serve the whole body i order the finger please come here immediately it does like this so the finger being part and parcel of the body it is the duty of the finger to serve the whole body when the finger is unable to give any service then it is diseased if there is some pain in the finger i want to use this finger for some purpose to pick up this flower i cannot do it that means it is diseased similarly we living entities part and parcel of god when we are unable to give service to the 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